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  #1  
Old January 16th, 2006, 04:27 AM
Jackot29 Jackot29 is offline
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Lock frame scroll

top.window.frames['mainFrame'].scrolling is undefined.

I'd like to lock temporarly on Event a frame scroll.

How could I obtain such a result ?

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  #2  
Old January 16th, 2006, 07:54 AM
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I've just tried :
top.window.frames['mainMainFrame'].setAttribute("scrolling","no");

But, Mozilla Javascript Consol says :
top.window.frames.mainMainFrame.setAttribute is not a function.

Whereas top.window.frames['mainMainFrame'] is efficiently an [Object Window].

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  #3  
Old January 16th, 2006, 08:09 AM
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Assuming the ID on your <FRAME> is mainMainFrame, try this:
Code:
document.getElementById("mainMainFrame").scrolling="no"
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  #4  
Old January 16th, 2006, 08:23 AM
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When I do this :

Code:
alert(top.window.document.getElementById("mainFrame").scrolling);
top.window.document.getElementById("mainFrame").scrolling="no"
alert(top.window.document.getElementById("mainFrame").scrolling);

returns auto (the right original value) and no but, the scroll bar is still enabled.
(idem with : top.window.document.getElementById("mainFrame").setAttribute("scrolling","NO");)

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Old January 17th, 2006, 04:04 AM
Jackot29 Jackot29 is offline
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Has nobody the solution to that problem ?

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  #6  
Old January 20th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Kravvitz Kravvitz is offline
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It works in Firefox 1.5 but not in Firefox 1.0.7. What version of Mozilla are you using?

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
It works in Firefox 1.5 but not in Firefox 1.0.7. What version of Mozilla are you using?


I usally work with Firefox/1.0.7 AND Internet Explorer 6.0.

Actually, I'd like it to disable scroll bar with I.E. (users of my intranet app desperatly mainly use it).

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  #8  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 06:00 AM
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I once again say: Don't try to control a browsers behaviour!
If your app doesn't work if a frame can scroll, make is so it DOES work.

What if I opened the frame in a seperate window?

Or in Lynx?

Sites like that only make me hit the 'disable javascript' button in my browser.
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Last edited by Itsacon : January 23rd, 2006 at 06:04 AM.

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  #9  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 07:03 AM
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That kind of comment really brings a lot to the debate...

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 07:34 AM
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Ok, more clearly explained:

The reason you're having trouble getting different browsers to do this, is because it's not a standard function.
If it was, you wouldn't be mucking about in Javascript, you would simply set the (hypothetical) HTML 'noscroll' attribute (or the CSS equivalent, if you were wise).
But that attribute doesn't exist. It's not in HTML, because HTML defines what the different sections of the document represent, and it's not in CSS, because CSS defines how something is displayed, and if you want a part not to display, to set it to HIDDEN, you don't scroll it away, lock the scrollbar and throw away the key (metaphorically speaking).
So people who wanted weird things started mucking about in javascript, then Microsoft started mucking about in javascript, etc, resulting in endless different versions of the aforementioned scripting language, with tons of functions only supported in browser X provided you have version 3.14.1.5.9.2.65.4.etcera.

Javascript is great for 'smart' forms, for the rest, use CSS.

Oh, and don't get me started on CSS support on IE.
But then, people using IE have simply failed their drivers licence for the information highway.

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  #11  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:06 AM
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I'll throw my two cents in here.

First, Itsacon, I love that line: people using IE have simply failed their drivers licence for the information highway.

I think the moral issue here lies with the use of the application... Public websites should NOT try to control a browser's behaviour... I fully agree with Itsacon here.

However, if it's an internal application for a company's internal website/intranet, there may be a reason to do stuff that may be deemed naughty otherwise. Plus, if your company standard is [*cringe*] Internet Explorer in a Windows environment, it may be excusable if your site/page design is tailered more for IE. Why would you bother worrying about Firefox or Safari?

Overall, however, I believe standard webdesign should be the front-most concern no matter where you're developing; however, if you need to let a few things slip, that should be alright.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:08 AM
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In direct relation to the question -- not a rant based on Itsacon's position () -- Jackot, you've pointed out that this is for internal use.

I still raise the question though, if you disable scrollbars, what happens if the content flows off the screen?

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 10:13 AM
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Itsacon, it sounds like you don't like JavaScript much. IE doesn't support JavaScript. It has JScript which is a clone of JavaScript with a few changes.

The scrolling attribute of frame elements is included in HTML 4. In general the values of HTML attributes can be changed via the DOM, however, there are some attributes in each browser that haven't been given that functionality. When accessed via the DOM X/HTML attributes are referred to as properties.

Setting the scrolling property of frames dynamically works in Firefox 1.5 (Mozilla 1.8) but not in Firefox 1.0.7 (Mozilla 1.7). It works in Opera 7.23+ but does not seem to work in IE6. Only Firefox 1.5 (Mozilla 1.8) seems to allow disabling the scrollbar of frame elements via the CSS overflow property.
Note: I only tested these things on Windows browsers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowDzz
Public websites should NOT try to control a browser's behaviour... I fully agree with Itsacon here.

However, if it's an internal application for a company's internal website/intranet, there may be a reason to do stuff that may be deemed naughty otherwise. Plus, if your company standard is [*cringe*] Internet Explorer in a Windows environment, it may be excusable if your site/page design is tailered more for IE. Why would you bother worrying about Firefox or Safari?

Overall, however, I believe standard webdesign should be the front-most concern no matter where you're developing; however, if you need to let a few things slip, that should be alright.

I agree.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:11 AM
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Actually, I'm not that much against J(ava)Script.

I just hate it when people use it to limit a users abilities, when it's only a hindrance to most people. Simple example: A lot of sites use javascript to keep people from right-clicking images to save them. Why? Any decent browser can deactivate javascript to get the image anyway (In Opera, there are actually settings on how much you let javascript do in general), or you can simply grab it using wget.

There are plenty of good uses for JavaScript however, I've used itplenty of times:
  • Form validation. It's great to show a popup when people enter invalid entries in a form. Of course you still need to check the input in the following page (PHP or something like that), in case people disable javascript, but adding the JS check as well can save a user valuable time submitting and reloading the page.
  • Smart forms. I have plenty of forms where fields are re-populated based on the choices made in the same form. When done right, using the proper DOM attributes, this works on pretty much all browsers (with exceptions such as Lynx of course), and can, again, save a user a lot of submitting and reloading, by eliminating the need to make every step a new form.
  • Programs. JavaScript is a nigh-complete programming language, and you can do some amazing stuff with it, up to and including image-editing. You should ask Icon sometime.

There are undoubtly plenty of other good uses for JS, but limiting a user's abilities to use his own browser is simply not one of them, if you ask me.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:35 AM
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Explaining why I want to lock a scrollbar would be busy but I'm gonna try to :

I open a pdf document inside an iframe which temporarily covers totality the navigator window so that the user cannot activate another link of the main window before having closed the div which includes the iframe.

As the content of the main window is large, it must contain a scroll bar.

Man must know that several pages of my Intranet site are succeptible to be simutaneously opened (in order to compare MySQL datas), that's why it is almost inevitable to limit the number of blank-targeted links and use temporary iframes (keeping many user-defined informations on main-window configuration in a simple way)...

I'm not sure on being clear but, I would have needed such a configuration under IE5+.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:45 AM
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I'm generally against the use of Javascript... I find too many people use Javascript for all the wrong reasons. As Itsacon mentions, it's often used to hinder one's experience on the website. Also, it is generally the furthest thing from accessible.

Your site (generally, intranet sites somewhat excluded) should not break if Javascript is disabled. Your site should NOT rely on fancy javascript popup menus.

I'm scared to see the misuse of AJAX... give it time... this time next year, guaranteed! I envision entire sites done in AJAX. This of course breaks regular page navigation (your browser's back button). Mind you, so does frames.

Also, I HATE with a passion, the stupid ads that highlight words in the middle of articles. Devshed is guilty of it, as are MANY other sites... If you're putting a link inside an article it better (1) be related and (2) be either a glossary link or more information link. Not to harp on devshed, but i've mentioned it to them in the past... i'm getting a little off topic.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 01:29 PM
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I reluctantly agree a little with using IE-specific stuff for intranets and stuff, I know of systems used in a _big_ bank which depend heavily on IE-JScript stuff. On the other hand how wise is it to rely on a platform of a company which has shown it does not really care about standards (even their own), I mean, will your website work with IE 8,9,... (or whatever future version)? I would not count on it.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 01:40 PM
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The tests I ran before were on frame elements, not iframe elements.
Here are the results for <iframe>s:
Setting the scrolling property of iframes dynamically works in
Firefox 1.0+ (Mozilla 1.7+) and Netscape 7.2+ (Mozilla 1.7+).
It works in Opera 7.23 and in 7.54 but the functionality seems to have been removed from 8.x. It does not seem to work in IE6.

Firefox and Netscape 6+ allow disabling the scrollbar of
iframe elements via the CSS overflow property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowDzz
I'm generally against the use of Javascript... I find too many people use Javascript for all the wrong reasons. As Itsacon mentions, it's often used to hinder one's experience on the website. Also, it is generally the furthest thing from accessible.

Your site (generally, intranet sites somewhat excluded) should not break if Javascript is disabled. Your site should NOT rely on fancy javascript popup menus.

I'm scared to see the misuse of AJAX... give it time... this time next year, guaranteed! I envision entire sites done in AJAX. This of course breaks regular page navigation (your browser's back button). Mind you, so does frames.

I agree with your points, however, when used correctly it's a very powerful tool. I use it often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowDzz
Also, I HATE with a passion, the stupid ads that highlight words in the middle of articles. Devshed is guilty of it, as are MANY other sites... If you're putting a link inside an article it better (1) be related and (2) be either a glossary link or more information link. Not to harp on devshed, but i've mentioned it to them in the past... i'm getting a little off topic.

NoScript and Adblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsacon
In Opera, there are actually settings on how much you let javascript do in general

Firefox and, if I remember correctly, Konqueror have options in their program preferences to do that as well.

I like Opera but I like Firefox more because of the many very useful extensions for it.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
I agree with your points, however, when used correctly it's a very powerful tool. I use it often.

I assume you're referring to Javascript in general? Or perhaps AJAX specifically?
Either way... I agree that they're both powerful tools... but I cringe everytime I see a page the absolutely relies on it.
I believe all sites should work if I disable Javascript... Javascript should only be used to enhance the user experience and make certain functions easier. Hence, Unobtrusive Javascript.

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Old January 23rd, 2006, 06:37 PM
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I was referring to JavaScript in general.

Here's a good article on Unobtrusive JavaScript.

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Old January 24th, 2006, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
Firefox and, if I remember correctly, Konqueror have options in their program preferences to do that as well.

Yup, they copied that from Opera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
I like Opera but I like Firefox more because of the many very useful extensions for it.


And I prefer Opera because it has all those extensions people find so useful build in, and has had them for the past three versions...

But if you want to keep using Netscape, go ahead

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Old January 24th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Firefox != Netscape

Many of the Firefox extensions I use provide features that are not in Opera.

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Old January 24th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
Firefox != Netscape


Netscape is still paying for it to be developed, and netscape doesn't get that much development anymore. Why'd you think that is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
Many of the Firefox extensions I use provide features that are not in Opera.


Such as?

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Old January 24th, 2006, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsacon
Such as?

Bork Bork Bork!

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  #25  
Old January 24th, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Since version 6 Netscape has been using the Mozilla engine. AOL bought Netscape and now donates money to the Mozilla Foundation. There are other browsers that use the Mozilla engine, they include Camino, Epiphany, and Galeon.

Firefox extensions that I use that provide features that I don't think are in Opera 8.5 include Launchy, Live HTTP Headers, Web Developer, NoScript, AdBlock, User Agent Switcher (Opera has one, but I don't think it allows users to add options), Gmail Notifier, BBCode, HTML Validator, and Colorzilla.

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Old January 24th, 2006, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowDzz


Date of Mozilla extension: January 08, 2006

Check this, dated Februari 14, 2003


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
Since version 6 Netscape has been using the Mozilla engine. AOL bought Netscape and now donates money to the Mozilla Foundation. There are other browsers that use the Mozilla engine, they include Camino, Epiphany, and Galeon.


Actually, if you check older versions of Netscape, you'll find they already identified as Mozilla. Ever tried typing 'about:mozilla' in any netscape browser (whatever the version)?Mozilla has always been the engine.
The Mozilla project was started when a group of engineers didn't like the takeover by AOL, and started their own browser.
This left Netscape without developers, so they ended up donating money, and effectively buying back their own stuff.

Mozilla (Or firefox, as kids call it these days), is simply the newest version of Netscape, since netscape hasn't made anything serious since the start of the Mozilla project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravvitz
Firefox extensions that I use that provide features that I don't think are in Opera 8.5 include Launchy, Live HTTP Headers, Web Developer, NoScript, AdBlock, User Agent Switcher (Opera has one, but I don't think it allows users to add options), Gmail Notifier, BBCode, HTML Validator, and Colorzilla.

  • Launchy: yup, can do. You can specify external programs for every mime type available.
  • Live HTTP headers: couldn't find it, so don't know what it does.
  • Web developer: yup, can do. Panel contains an 'info' panel, with a lot of info for developer, and there are buttons and menu functions (which can be added as buttons, every function can) to disable stuff like css, add-in another stylesheet, see html elements, etc.
  • Noscript: like I said, you can define the precise allowances for scripts, or even turn them of alltogether.
  • Adblock: not as such, but User javascript can easily be used for that. There is a very good pop-up blocker though.
  • User Agent Switcher: As you said there is one. You can also define user agent on a per-domain basis by means of the ua.ini file. True, you can't add your own, but why would you, all mayor browsers are available.
  • Gmail notify: Wouldn't know, hate GMail (google reading my mail isn't exactly my idea of privacy.
  • BBCode: No, but can't imagine this is useful. Most forums HAVE this option (DevArticles does), and I usually type it quicker anyway. But if you like it, it's your good right.
  • HTML Validator: yup, can do: rightclick->Validate, or press Alt-Ctrl-V.
  • Colorzilla: Doesn't Photoshop have this build in? Or else I look at the sourcecode. Opera doesn't have it though.

As for features I miss in Mozilla, don't really know, hardly use it. Mouse gestures are one (I know it's an extention, screw that for a larks)
One thing really springs to mind: In Opera, if you hit the back button after submitting a form, the FORM IS STILL FILLED IN, except for password fields. So if you make a mistake, you don't have to fill in everything again.
No other browser has this, and I REALLY miss it.

It also like Opera's Panel, Bookmarks are well-organized, and the transfer-manager is SOO much clearer than Mozilla's.

The Wand, Opera's password manager is also nice. Only password manager I know that can handle login fields with more than one username field (username and department for example).

Fast Forward and Rewind are very practical (using back and forward buttons (or appropriate mouse gestures) to browse through sites with 'Previous' and 'Next' Links, like slideshows, or multi-page articles.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point

Still, each his own, if you prefer Mozilla, go ahead. Just know there's a better browser out there

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  #27  
Old January 25th, 2006, 08:05 AM
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Stupid Bork plugin... I tried to find the dumbest Firefox plugin and least useful one...
Good work showing me up =P

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  #28  
Old June 13th, 2006, 01:41 PM
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Off Topic/ Answer

it seems we all have gotten off topic, if you dont want a page to scroll in a browser window in IE you would have to use the script... (asumming that the framset looked like the example below)
<FRAMESET COLS="50%,*">
<FRAME SRC="fistpage.html" ID="pagetop" NAME="pagetop" />
<FRAME SRC="mainpage.html" ID="page" NAME="page" />
</FRAMESET>
<!--ASSUME element: pagetop WE DONT WANT TO SCROLL-->

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
parent.pagetop.document.scroll="no";
</SCRIPT>
<!-- IF THAT DONT WORK USE THE FOLLOWING INSIDE YOUR PAGE THAT YOU DONT WANT TO SCROLL-->

<BODY SCROLL="no">

Email me if you want at Colton22@comcast.net

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