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  #1  
Old December 8th, 2002, 11:59 PM
mytch mytch is offline
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Article Discussion: DevSpeak Issue #5: The 1 Billion Dollar Sun Law Suit, “Rate My Wh

If you have any questions or comments about issue #5 of DevXpress then please post them here.

This forum post relates to this article

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  #2  
Old December 9th, 2002, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
News
Shock horror! Microsoft has found another security bug in their popular Internet Explorer web browser. At least they are finding these bugs, but it’s not good for Microsoft’s reputation when they keep getting security flaws in their software at a time when security (in both the online and offline worlds) is everything. You can read more on this here.


Popular Internet Explorer Browser. Wonder how popular it would be right now if M$ never used the illeagal scheme they did to push the browser into the hands of all the inexperienced computer users accross the world a few years back.

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If you ever doubted the “bitchyness” of the raging battle between Microsoft and Sun, fear not. Microsoft are now trying to prove that Sun has admitted that Java is not as competitive as .NET -- all to get out of a billion dollar anti-trust law suit.

Microsoft will go to all lengths to prove that it's innocent. However, it could fall short anyway. Currently Sun have already spent over

[Dr_Evil_Voice]1 billion dollars [/Dr_Evil_Voice]

... on this legal case against Microsoft. I personally believe that they could have used this money to reinvest into their server side JSP language and effectively gain a larger market share, but who am I to advise Sun on how to spend their money?


How is anyone going to be competitive when M$ pushes their crap on 90% of the desktops around the world with no regard for other companies and their better products or technologies. Personally, I think that the 1 billion dollars that sun is spending (or has spent) is well worth the effort.

------------------------------------------------------------

On a side note: I looked at the description you guys have on the klipfolio site for your clip ->
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DevArticles.com: ASP, PHP and .NET articles, tutorials and forums for the serious web developer.

I posted a question in the lounge area a few weeks back about more advanced articles on PHP. Would this be a problem to provide some - 95% of the articles/tutorials for PHP on the site are geared towards the beginner. The site is definately lacking in the serious web developer side of things for PHP. (take no offense please, but you guys are profiting off PHP but are not helping a great deal in the promotion of the language - ie: no discussions of PHP in the enterprise, no advanced articles/tutorials, etc., etc..)....
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  #3  
Old December 9th, 2002, 01:29 AM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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how can php be used to design an enterprise applications? It is mearly a web programming language.
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  #4  
Old December 9th, 2002, 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by jpenn

How is anyone going to be competitive when M$ pushes their crap on 90% of the desktops around the world with no regard for other companies and their better products or technologies. Personally, I think that the 1 billion dollars that sun is spending (or has spent) is well worth the effort.



Whooo - I ain't gonna touch that one!!!

/me lights a match under jpenn

Quote:
take no offense please, but you guys are profiting off PHP but are not helping a great deal in the promotion of the language


Umm, I dunno about everyone else, but I've been using this site for about six months, and haven't paid a CENT. And I'm yet to see a third party banner ad.

Last edited by stumpy : December 9th, 2002 at 06:22 AM.

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  #5  
Old December 9th, 2002, 08:01 AM
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windows update

For those of us who are a little more technically minded (that means YOU), don't bother with Windows Update. Download "Microsoft Baseline Analyzer" instead.

It's a great tool written by an outside company, which scans your PC, and notifies you of missing patch's, service packs, and drivers which need updating (among other things). And it's free.

It doesn't force all the crap that MS try and force down your throat when running Update. Instead, it tells you in plain english what's missing, and why you need it, if you need it.

You can download the tool here. It's great for servers, as you have much more control over what patch's get applied.

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  #6  
Old December 9th, 2002, 10:37 AM
jpenn jpenn is offline
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You see DevArticle Writers - Already people are asking questions. If you keep pushing articles like you are, you end up with stuff like this ->
how can php be used to design an enterprise applications? It is mearly a web programming language.
James Yang, PHP coupled with a couple other technologies on the market today can provide a robust enterprise application solution.

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For those of us who are a little more technically minded (that means YOU), don't bother with Windows Update. Download "Microsoft Baseline Analyzer" instead.

Lol Stumpy, I have a solution for the windows update - don't use windows....

Quote:
Umm, I dunno about everyone else, but I've been using this site for about six months, and haven't paid a CENT. And I'm yet to see a third party banner ad.

Hmm, you must not visit the article pages of the site. I was actually referring to the products they sell (their weblog system)....

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  #7  
Old December 9th, 2002, 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by jpenn
Lol Stumpy, I have a solution for the windows update - don't use windows....
[/B]


Ugh. Again. Why should I bother with such a dodgy response.

Linux & Mac OS's have had more security advisories out this year than Microsoft. If I were you, I wouldn't be using Linux. Plus, I'm tired of people saying they use Linux cos they think it's "31337". Get over it.

Read all about it.

Mozilla has more bugs than IE

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Old December 9th, 2002, 06:13 PM
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Linux & Mac OS's have had more security advisories out this year than Microsoft. If I were you, I wouldn't be using Linux. Plus, I'm tired of people saying they use Linux cos they think it's "31337". Get over it.

Who said I was using linux?

Hmm - posted a link for Mozilla also -> Did I post something that led you to believe that I use Mozilla? I don't see anything anywhere that might lead you to believe that....

--------------------------

As for bugs in Linux - don't effect me none; that is the job of my SA's and and CSSA's....

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Ugh. Again. Why should I bother with such a dodgy response.

And indeed - why should you?
And if you do, get your homework and facts straight first.....

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  #9  
Old December 9th, 2002, 06:29 PM
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I never mentioned you were using Linux or Apple OS's. (Tho I notice you didn't mention which one you were using.) I was mearly enlightening people to the fact that using pointless, blanket statements like "don't use windows" serve no purpose whatsever, except maybe start even more pointless flames like this one.

Please "do your homework", or at least think before posting silly statements.

/me leaves this thread, taking his troll and matches elsewhere.

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  #10  
Old December 9th, 2002, 06:41 PM
jpenn jpenn is offline
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Hey, don't leave the thread - I enjoy the company. And no, no flame wars, I am to old for that crap.....

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  #11  
Old December 9th, 2002, 08:42 PM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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i know php can be used to develop big applications but i am yet to see an enterprise app written in php and mysql (and other related technologies)

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Old December 9th, 2002, 09:29 PM
jpenn jpenn is offline
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i know php can be used to develop big applications but i am yet to see an enterprise app written in php and mysql (and other related technologies)

Yes James, you are right...

The related technologies that make the big enterprise solution a reality for PHP are XBL and XPCOM. We are currently working on some bindings for PHP for our client side applications (that run on a variety of platforms including win and *nix). Once we get some of these bindings done, we can execute our PHP application code on the clients machine (independently) through the XUL gui interface and have it interact with a remote server or across an enterprise network and perform a variety of tasks...

One thing that is going to make PHP a great viable solution for enterprise applications is the upcoming release of PHP 5. Here is an article that talks about some of the new features -> http://www.theopenenterprise.com/story/TOE20021204S0001

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Old December 9th, 2002, 09:32 PM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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when we say "enterrprise" solution...are you refering to a solution for a large company with different front ends (windows, gnome, or web) with physically separated tiers and use of server farms allowing dynamic update of clients software? or

just a solution for a company?

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  #14  
Old December 9th, 2002, 09:35 PM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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I personally believe php is too slow for enterprise applications.

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  #15  
Old December 9th, 2002, 09:38 PM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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php's strength is the way its compiled (rather interpreted) but it is also its disadvantage.

What's new in php5 ?

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Old December 9th, 2002, 11:29 PM
jpenn jpenn is offline
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when we say "enterrprise" solution...are you refering to a solution for a large company with different front ends (windows, gnome, or web) with physically separated tiers and use of server farms allowing dynamic update of clients software? or

just a solution for a company?

A complete office solution that will handle tasks such as document handling and distribution (cross-platform), load balancing/server clustering, application/desktop integration, intranet/internet mail handling, web services (SOAP, etc.), etc. etc.. Now, PHP is just a piece of the puzzle that will be used for the tightly integrated content management, load balancing and document distribution. Other technologies are being used as well (at least thats some of the goals of our current projects)...

Quote:
I personally believe php is too slow for enterprise applications.

Looking forward to the speed enhancement in 5...


Quote:
What's new in php5 ?

Well, I wouldn't really say new - but then again, with its weak implementation of OO as it stands right now, the improvements that 5 is slated to offer can be looked at as new - still not complete, but getting there...

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Old December 10th, 2002, 01:00 AM
James Yang James Yang is offline
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well ur definition of enterprise app is different to mine!

yours is more like a content management system. Which, php can do just fine.

Unless php becomes a compile language it won't be able to compete with java and .net. But the prob is its interpreation its also its strength and why ppl use it as web scripting lanaguage. Changing it to a compile language might change the whole direction in which the language is designed for.

comeon, .NET 's asp.net performance is very close the perf of C++ ISAPI filters.

Im just thinking... why not use .net or java ? why do you HAVE to use php? Its a great language for web apps. (so ppl say)...but it isn't designed for apps that require performance and flexibility and easy management.

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Old December 10th, 2002, 03:38 PM
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Im just thinking... why not use .net or java ? why do you HAVE to use php? Its a great language for web apps. (so ppl say)...but it isn't designed for apps that require performance and flexibility and easy management.

Well, I have no problem with using either of those. Using PHP within this application is more of a 'lets see how it will stack up in this sort of application' kind of thing.

This is what makes XPCOM so great -> The bindings for PHP will be written for the application to enable the code execution through the GUI; that resides on the client. If, after the application is built, if the performance of the application is suffering do to the use of PHP (on the client side), we can elect to convert from PHP to PERL, Python, Java; or any other language we want on the client side without having to rebuild the application GUI. Create the new bindings and add the language source code and were done - no change in the GUI, everyones happy. The applications are also modular with the ability to add packages to the application on the fly, through the GUI install wizard...

Quote:
well ur definition of enterprise app is different to mine!

yours is more like a content management system. Which, php can do just fine.

Well, yes - and no. Yes being a true content management system is the ultimate goal, no being the specialized invetory control and accounting software (or any other software package we design) that is built in with the package. Now, once the core is complete - this will enable us to customize the application on the fly to suite a variety of different industries. One client may need a network of 100 boxes and a full blown accounting and invetory package, while another client may want a 10 box network for the sole purpose of publishing and distributing content (for both print and web) - both scenerios would recieve the same core package, only plugged on the fly differently for the different functionality.....

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